Why Biden’s White House Press Secretary Is Leaving the Democratic Party

So what was an example of the way he was treated?

I mean, it was nasty articles that were coming out daily. You should go back and see for yourself. You’re writing the articles, right? You should go back and see for yourself. It was a campaign. It was even reported that it was a campaign.

So you think asking him to step aside was O.K., but there shouldn’t have been nasty articles?

Look, what I am saying is it shouldn’t have happened that way.

But it should have happened, or shouldn’t have happened?

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I don’t think it should have happened. I believe that we should have done everything that we could, regardless of who was at the top of the ticket, and fought extremely hard. He was the one at the top of the ticket, and so, therefore, I believe we should have fought to make sure that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won. That’s what I believed.

When he decided to run in 2023, we have to also remember what was happening at that moment. There was no red wave in the midterms. Matter of fact, the President and the Vice-President did better than any incumbent President in their first midterm. Polling was saying that it was going to be a red wave.

The polling was pretty accurate in 2022, but go on.

Well, O.K., but remember it was reported that there would be a red wave.

You are right, there was a lot of talk of a red wave.

So there was no red wave. He was an incumbent, and he was the only person to have beaten Donald Trump. Those were the things that were true and in front of him, and he was being encouraged by Democrats in the leadership to run.

So you have no concern, even to this day, that Joe Biden could serve as President through January, 2029?

I did not see anything that would’ve given me concern.

But you watched TV like the rest of us, right?

I always couch it with this: of course, he was older. Of course, he was aging. He mentioned it. He talked about not speaking as well as he used to. He talked about not walking as well as he used to. No one is saying that he didn’t age, but he is someone that I engaged with. I saw him every single day as his White House press secretary, and he was someone that was engaged, on top of policy, challenging his staff.

One could conceivably think that he could do the job through January, 2025, but that it was not wise to think he could do the job through January, 2029, right?

It’s not my place to say.

What do you mean it’s not your place to say?

No, no, no. Wait, I’m answering the question. I did not see anything that would cause me concern. That is my answer.

Except the debate, and the other things that everyone saw?

What I’m saying to you is the debate for me was one time. I had never seen him like that before.

You write in the book, “He was just as defiant in his interview with [George] Stephanopoulos, though some nameless Democrats criticized that appearance too, saying it failed to ease their concerns.” This interview occurred after the debate, but before he dropped out. I went back and watched that interview. This was one answer he gave: “I, uh—I prepared what I usually would do, sitting down as I did, come back with foreign leaders or National Security Council for explicit detail. And I realized about partway through that, you know, all—I get quoted the New York Times had me down, at ten points before the debate, nine now, or whatever the hell it is. The fact of the matter is, that what I looked at is that he also lied twenty-eight times. I couldn’t, I mean, the way the debate ran, not—my fault, no one else’s fault—no one else’s fault.” When I watched that, I thought, This man should not be President for four more years. It doesn’t mean I think Donald Trump should be President, but I’m a little surprised that you don’t see what so many people, including so many Democrats, saw.

I’m not the only person who feels this. I’m just the one speaking very loudly. I’m the person who’s saying the quiet thing out loud.

There’s a silent minority of people out there who feel that Biden was taken advantage of, and most people don’t want to say it. Is that what you mean?

Let me just say, this is my experience that I’m speaking to, and what I saw. I just want to be very, very clear: on average. I just want to be clear: on average. Not from one interview, not from one debate. On average. I have heard from many, many people who were disappointed by the reaction of the Democratic Party. I have. I have. And these are citizens. These are people who vote.

Biden also said in that interview, about him being down significantly in polls, “That’s not what our polls show . . . All the pollsters I talk to tell me it’s a tossup. It’s a tossup.” Apparently, Nancy Pelosi was concerned that Biden was not getting accurate information about what his polls against Trump showed. Was it a concern of yours that Biden was not getting accurate information about the state of the race?